Live conversation on the power of pivoting with Lizzie Marlow, Founder of By Fable and Jen Hoskote, Managing Director of Vin du Tap.
When life throws curveballs at your business, what do you do? In our first ever live recording of the Good Business Podcast episode, Chris Edwards dives into the world of pivoting with Lizzie Marlow, the Founder of By Fable, and Jen Hoskote, the Managing Director of Vin du Tap.
Pivoting is a crucial aspect of entrepreneurship, especially when navigating unforeseen challenges like the COVID pandemic. Our guests share their stories of resilience, adaptability, and learning from failures, offering insights into the art of successful pivots.
Tune in to discover the importance of staying true to your vision while adapting to market feedback, the role of communities like Launchpad in supporting businesses through transformations, and the skills every entrepreneur needs to thrive in the face of change. Don’t miss out!
0:00:03 – Introduction
0:03:10 – Lizzie shares about pivoting her business from creative director to founder of Byfable
0:05:16 – Lizzie discusses her second pivot into focusing on artwork
0:08:02 – Jen shares about pivoting her business from corporate to founder of Not Shit Fun Wines and Vendu Tap
0:11:09 – Discussion about how branding impacts consumer decisions more than the product itself
0:13:17 – Hardest part about pivoting according to Lizzie
0:15:36 – Knowing when it’s time to pivot according to Jen
0:18:40 – Examples of pivots that didn’t work and lessons learned
0:23:16 – What the entrepreneurs are most proud of in their journeys
- Chris Edwards, founder of Launchpad and The Honeycombers, and host of the Good Business podcast
- Lizzie Marlow, Founder of By Fable
- Jen Hoskote, Managing Director of Vin du Tap and Not Shit Fun Wines
Good Business goes behind the scenes of the leaders of good businesses, who have people, planet and profit at the core of their mission. Follow the show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Chris Edwards 0:03
Welcome to Good business, a launchpad podcast that goes behind the scenes of entrepreneurs who put people planet and profit at the forefront of their mission. Hi, my name is Chris Edwards, and I’m the founder of the honey comas, which is a digital media business in Asia, and more recently, the founder of Launchpad, a community of conscious entrepreneurs. I’m super excited to share that this episode was actually recorded live at what is our massive Small Business retail event in Singapore called the boutiques fear. We have a series of chats with founders who are currently scaling conscious and sustainable businesses in Asia. And we’ve got a lot of learnings to share with you. In this session, we discussed the power of pivoting with Lizzie Mallow, who’s the founder of bifacial. And Jen Hoskote, who’s the Managing Director of vendor tap. Both of these entrepreneurs know that as a business owner, you need to be able to respond to the market and adapt and change. But the real challenge is, how do you know when it’s time to change? And when do you stick to your guns. So let’s get into it.
So for those of you who don’t know who I am, my name is Chris Edwards. And my first business is a digital media business called Honey commerce. And we just celebrated 15 years in business this week, which is pretty cool. And we’ve had a lot of pivots along the way. And I just think this topic is so valuable because pivoting is something we all need to do in our businesses, and it’s quite scary. It’s really hard to know when to pivot and when to hold your guns. So I’m super stoked to talk about this topic today and have our panellists join us. So let me introduce our panellists. First, we have Lizzie Mallow, who is the founder of by fable. Lizzy actually started as a creative director. And she really spent a lot of her time building brands and designing for others. So her first pivot was actually to move out of designing for others and started designing for herself, and by fable actually started as a Christmas card business. And so her second pivot was actually into artwork. And I’ll let Lizzie tell the story. But she’s obviously already done a couple of pivots, so is an experience pivotal. And my next panellist is Jen, post, Cody, who’s the Managing Director of vendor tap. And I also love your other business name, which is not ship fundwise, which is just the best name ever. And Jen was actually an account laid for a number of big multinational alcohol brands, including Cadbury and Grey Goose. So obviously, she’s done a big pivot out of corporate and into her own business. And I will let you tell the story about your pivoting in your business. But I’m really stoked to thank you guys for coming today. So let’s get into it. Maybe Lizzie will start with you, maybe you can just share us about your pivot in your business from maybe you can tell your whole story
Lizzie Marlow 3:10
share with us, we could be here a while. So hi, I’m Lizzie. I am as Chris as the creative director and founder of by fable. So I am actually originally a designer for luxury and lifestyle brands. And in 2020, everybody rebranded because there was nothing else to do. So everyone was focusing inward, which was great for myself and my business. But actually, I was completely burnt out. Because by the end of the year, I had created so many different things for different people weren’t necessarily the things that I was passionate about wasn’t the aesthetic I was passionate about. And I got to the end of the year, and my bank balance was healthy. But actually, I think my soul was pretty crushed. So I decided to create something for myself that I was really passionate about. So put them up there. And the Christmas cards sold. But what surprised me most was I sold out of all of my illustrations. And that was the first pivot because it wasn’t something that I had intended to do. So I’d never intended to be kind of showcase my art. And that way, it was all about the stationaries. So yeah, that was my first pivot.
Chris Edwards 4:12
And maybe you can share just in your business now that you’re focusing mainly on the artworks. Yeah, so
Lizzie Marlow 4:18
actually, I kind of continued with the stationery because it was something I was really passionate about. So I wanted to get I guess you have to sometimes in business, especially if you’re single entrepreneurs to actually kind of scratch that itch, you have to kind of figure out, you know, get it out your system. So I did that and it was really popular. But again, the artwork just kept on selling every time I produced a new print, it would sell out so I kind of listened to that. And actually now I’m leaning into the artwork side of things. So now my second pivot, I guess is that I’m restructuring my whole business so that it’s all centred around the artwork. So every single product that I have now has the artwork on it, I’m creating homewares that have the beautiful ink brushstroke on it. I’m creating candles that are all hand painted, you know everything has that kind of hand finished the illustration element? And actually, that’s what people want. And that’s what I’m really enjoying. It’s not what I set out to do. But it’s actually something that people are loving. And you know, actually, it’s a wonderful thing. So that was my second pivot.
Chris Edwards 5:16
Yeah, thank you. And Jen, I feel like we’ve gotten to know each other through Launchpad, because Jen is always the supplier of our wines at our events. And funnily enough, I might spend a bit of time at the bar. But Jen, I’d love you to share your journey. And also, I’d really love you to talk about the packaging opportunities that you’re looking at as well. Yeah,
Jen Hoskote 5:35
sure. So Jen, host goodie, founder and MD of the new tab. So yeah, my background is mass marketing and advertising for some larger alcohol brands. And when my husband and I moved to Singapore, I knew I wanted to work for myself work in wine, but wasn’t quite sure how to do that. And I was looking at different markets. You know, what, what’s happening Australia, what’s happening in the US and Europe, and saw that wine on tap is kind of this new movement that’s happening in the drink space and f&b in general. And thought, you know, why not do that in Singapore, it’s so strapped for space, it’s so much more sustainable. It’s less bottles, all of that. So created a new tab, and took one last corporate job just to save up some more money and got some suppliers on board bought all the equipment. I had some customers that were willing to do a trial with me. And then 2020 happens. And I thought, okay, maybe maybe not the best time to do this. Obviously, the world shut down. So I had a baby instead. took up a bit of time. And then it was fun choice. Yeah, good. Good. Yeah, pivot number one. And then yeah, 2021 it was like, you know, I gotta do something, I need to do something. But the market was obviously not ready for for wine on tap at all. So I said, Alright, let me just do bottles for now, that will at least get me into accounts start relationships. So when the market does kind of rebound, then it’s easier for me to have those conversations. And I don’t know not shit fun wines. I was kind of just bored with all the other names out there and wanted something a bit irreverent, something I could have fun with. And something that targeted a younger audience, like boomers are very well taken care of in the drink space, especially in wine, but nobody’s really looking at that younger demographic and getting them into the category. So yeah, not sure fun wines NSFW to play on not suitable for work allows me to be a bit cheeky. Yeah, so it’s been a b2b business up until now, like only selling to bars restaurants, being the supplier for Launchpad. But now we’re at a point because the market is shifting and changing where I want not shit fine wines to actually be more of a b2c business and draw people in that way. And Vindu tap will kind of go back to its original plan of important distribution. And we’re going to start doing a lot more kegs and alternative packaging.
Chris Edwards 8:02
And then when you talk about you want not cheap on ones to address the younger generation, like that’s a classic pivot there that you want to move the business to a new audience. What’s given you that indication of what’s given you that idea, or that drive to pivot?
Jen Hoskote 8:20
I don’t see many other companies right now, especially in wine. Looking after that audience are trying to get them into the category. They’re drinking hard. seltzers really cheap beer. So we got to get an entry point for them and I do you think that’s where the packaging comes in? We know that Gen Z and millennials care a lot more about the environment. They’re thinking about the future they think about their children. So yeah, that’s kind of where it all came from. And I you know, it’s a small industry, we all talk there are other suppliers are like we cannot no matter what we do, we cannot get younger drinkers. So it’s, it’s an opportunity,
Chris Edwards 8:58
and maybe you can share with the audience what’s unique about the packaging? Yeah,
Jen Hoskote 9:02
so we have a few different options for packaging. So today for boutiques is Gonzo vino, so they’re from South Australia, they only packaged in alternative packaging, so they do aluminium cans, three litre bag and box and then 30 litre kegs. And the packaging is super fun. It’s inspired by the 70s. So lots of fun colours and patterns. And the wine itself comes from all sustainably farmed vineyards, so no synthetic pesticides. And then when it goes into the winery, they’re not adding any nasties as well. And yeah, packaging itself. So three litres is equivalent to four bottles that gets saved from landfill. A 30 litre Keg is 40 bottles that get saved from landfill. It’s so much lighter weight so when we ship wine over to give you an idea of one pallet of bottles is about 1.3 tonnes, something like that. And then if I just do the excuse me the boxes is it’s the 900. And I get to bring in double the amount of wine. So you get your economies of scale. And it’s fun and people are enjoying it. It’s liquid on lips as well. So once you do the sampling people are Yeah, their soul.
Chris Edwards 10:12
And do you find that the younger generation are really open to seeing an alternative packaging like a cat because of their concerns around the environment? I
Jen Hoskote 10:24
think that’s one factor. Convenience also plays a huge factor as well. So the cans are great for beach going into the movie theatre going down for a picnic. Yeah, and same with the boxes if you’re doing a barbecue or anything like that, or if you want a glass midweek, but you don’t want to open a full bottle because then you feel guilty about not drinking it, you can do that as well. So there’s it’s convenience plus environmental benefits. I think for the individual consumer, yes, you can talk about the environmental benefits on a commercial level, like when I’m selling to trade, the environmental thing is so secondary. They’re much more concerned about profit margins, and you know, how can we monetize on this, whereas the sustainability is value add?
Chris Edwards 11:09
It’s so interesting, isn’t it? I think another vendor here at boutiques is selling food in, in cans, a premium food in cans, and like, I’m naturally attracted to it, because I know, packaging and plastic is such a huge problem. But it’s interesting that it is secondary for the consumer. And really, it is the product number one and how it tastes is still always going to be the number one driver. But very interesting. Busy. I wanted to ask you, what was the hardest thing about pivoting? I’m not sure which pivot, you want to talk about
Lizzie Marlow 11:41
so many pivots. I think for me, the hardest thing, the pivot to my own product was actually a real learning curve for me, because I’ve never sold my own product. So that was tough. I’m kind of a, how do I actually do this? You know how to, apart from putting it on Instagram and putting it online? How do I get into retailers? You know, how do I get people interested in your product, because I’ve always been on the kind of the service end where I’m producing the designs for people and I’ve ever had to market those designs or like where they actually go from when I give them that’s always given to a marketing person, or someone like that. So actually, that was a really steep learning curve for me to being like, I’ve created something beautiful, but no one can see it. Because I don’t know how to get it out there. So that’s where you know, actually creating, meeting people and networking, doing things such as Launchpad is so important, because then you meet people who know about marketing, you meet other entrepreneurs who’ve done it themselves. And actually, that’s how I learned to kind of get myself out there. And I’m still learning everyday because it’s not natural to me, I’m actually I’m such a perfectionist, you know, I care about every single detail down to like the packaging, I originally wanted all of my prints, I didn’t want any plastic, which obviously when you have paper in the tropics, cool. So all of my prints were in black envelopes with this beautiful embossed label, and they look stunning, but no one could see them. So you put them in a retailer and people were like, miss them. So that was a big kind of learning for me that actually sometimes the product has to kind of be visible. And the perfection can’t actually work. Because people need to be able to see the product and actually buy the product. So that’s a case a real learning for me as well. So
Chris Edwards 13:17
interesting is that you can’t really learn that from anything but real life failure.
Lizzie Marlow 13:21
Yeah. A lot of failure. And then you learn.
Chris Edwards 13:25
Yeah, I suppose failure is probably not the right word. Because every time something doesn’t work, it’s just a learning, right?
Lizzie Marlow 13:31
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I learned so much all the time. And I’m still learning every I put a post up the other day of my kind of this is my fourth I think we teach but you know, all from every single pop up, I’ve done, something’s been different. I’m taking away I’m adding and every single time. I think it just gets better and better. And you’re learning all the time and you meet people you learn from them. And I think it’s that’s how we all grow.
Chris Edwards 13:53
Yeah, I love that. Shannon, I wanted to ask you, when do you know it’s time to pivot?
Jen Hoskote 13:58
I’d say Well, the first time kind of a bit easy. COVID kind of just forced me to do that. But the kind of shift we’re going through right now is really just assessing the market and what’s going on, you know, specifically to f&b and I guess wine. People aren’t going out as much. It’s really expensive in Singapore, as we all know. So when they do go out, it’s more of an occasion, but they still want to drink so they gotta go to a retailer or online retailer. So we’ve solely been focused on the b2b side, but there’s a huge opportunity in b2c. So doing things like boutiques and getting in front of a lot of potential b2c customers, and just kind of seeing where it goes from there.
Chris Edwards 14:39
Yeah, it’s a it’s a real challenge. Isn’t that I think it’s a bit of a leap into the unknown. Yeah.
Jen Hoskote 14:43
Yeah. I hope this works.
Chris Edwards 14:48
But I think what I’m hearing is actually keeping your ear to the ground and having great relationships in the industry and leaning on those relationships and using it as a knowledge source is is kind of Key to help you, I suppose, reduce the risks of taking a leap.
Jen Hoskote 15:04
Yeah. And I think it is a lot of test and learn. It doesn’t matter what kind of business you have, like you’re kind of we’re all just throwing stuff at a wall, seeing what sticks, figuring out and then trying to maximise that. So it is a lot of experimentation, but just putting yourself out there, hey, this is what I’m thinking, Can I get your advice on it? Whether they’re in the industry or not? Yeah, and trying to validate the ideas that
Chris Edwards 15:26
way. And let’s see, maybe I can ask you what advice you’d give to entrepreneurs that are thinking about pivoting, but are unsure, like, what would you say to them? I
Lizzie Marlow 15:36
think, for me, the main thing is, is that you don’t have to please everybody, you know, I think when you have a product, you love it. And that’s why you want to delve into the unknown in the first place, and not everyone is going to like your product, and everyone will have feedback, everyone will have an opinion. And I think for me, you know, I my whole brand is monochrome and minimalist. And, you know, I’m surrounded by colour the whole time. And everyone’s like, Haha, Lizzie, you know, monochrome, Lizzie, but I have found my tribe. And I think when you find the people that love your product, they love that product. So by trying to please everybody, you actually please no one. Whereas actually, if you keep to your kind of true core aesthetic, and try not to get I think the problem with pivoting is it can be tempting, because you could just flow to here and then to here, and then you just get lost and overwhelmed. So actually, if you stay true to your product, you find your tribe. And if no one likes, you just get done on then I’ll meet people, and then you find your people, and they stick with you. They grow with you, they support you. And they are your tribe. So I just say try not to please everybody, just stick to your guns, create your kind of your soul product, and it will work. If you are passionate about it. Your passion will show through and it will be good.
Chris Edwards 16:48
I love that. I love that. It’s calling in a lot of bravery. Right? Yeah, for
Lizzie Marlow 16:53
sure. I mean, it’s so easy to kind of get waylaid and every but like I said, everybody’s gonna have an opinion or some feedback. And it’s from your family, your friends to like the random on the street who’s like, I only like colour. I’m like, cool, you know? Nice to meet you. I guess you know whether you’re on the mailing list, that’s fine. So you know, you can’t please everybody. But actually, you got to just stick to your guns. If you’re going to do this. If you’re going to be an entrepreneur, you just got to go for it, and there’s going to be corrupt times. But then when the good times are good, and you find two people, it’s so good. And it’s so worth it. What about Eugen,
Chris Edwards 17:27
what do you think your advice would be to someone who’s thinking about changing up their business, but then at the
Jen Hoskote 17:34
same really talk to people about what direction you’re thinking about going in getting advice, finding a tribe, or different mentors in different sectors. So this year, what I’ve tried to do is surround myself with more Launchpad people in different industries that I wouldn’t normally align myself with. And then getting some peers as well that are in a related industry, because they just relate a bit more they understand it a bit more. So yeah, rely on the people around you to really help you make that shift. But follow your gut and your intuition as well. It’s so important. And definitely don’t try to please everyone. So yeah, I
Chris Edwards 18:09
think it’s very interesting. And reflecting on it, both of you have really leaned strongly into a niche, you know, you’ve actually carved out, I’m not for everyone, but I am for the person who will love my product will absolutely love it. So I think that is a brave move and a bold move. But you both are having success. I just wonder if you’ve ever dipped your toe into something that didn’t work? And have you ever had to reverse pivot out of something.
Lizzie Marlow 18:40
So last year, I created the most beautiful product I’ve ever created. I think it was this like letterpressed calendar. So all of them days, when they’re depressed, it was blind and bars, it came with a beautiful brass stand. It was in this black blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was amazing. And I think I sold like 50 I had to produce 300 To make the cost worthwhile. And I was so proud. But it just I bought festival I was late because doing everything yourself, you can never hit your deadlines I should have probably had it out at the beginning of September, I had it out the end of October. So then I had two months to sell a whole heap of calendars. And I was so proud of it and it just completely bombed. But I think it’s one of those things that actually a made me realise you’ve got to get your act together. Because if you’re doing something like a calendar, which is time related, you’ve got to be on it. And second of all, you’ve got to get those things sometimes out of your system. It’s something that I’ve always wanted to create and I don’t think it’s dead like I think I’ve learned so much from doing it. I’ve had people now this year been like where’s the calendar? I really like I want that Canada’s like too late buddies. You I have 250 for 2023 You want them. But otherwise, you know it’s just about learning and actually I think next year I will do a calendar but I’ll be on time I might be slightly different, you know, but sometimes it bombs and you could love the product and just for whatever reason, it doesn’t work. But I think just again, I learned so much from doing that. So every single failure is still genuinely a learning. So
Jen Hoskote 20:12
ours is obviously wine. Like, there’s some brands where I’m like, it’s gonna kill it in Singapore, it’s so good. And I ordered way too much of it, and people hate it. And it’s not necessarily like the wine itself. It’s more the branding. Yeah. And so it’s like, okay, that’s the magic sauce. I think it’s good juice plus good branding is what people want. So you iterate. And then you just say next time, order less, definitely order less. But yeah, you you’ve learned for sure. So I’ve done that a few times now where I just think the product is going to kill it. And people just don’t resonate with it, and you move forward.
Chris Edwards 20:48
So that’s so interesting about the branding, letting it down, I didn’t realise that I suppose everyone thinks they’re a wine connoisseur, and they like their wine. But it’s interesting, when you’re a wine retailer that you can see, actually, that that branding, actually has such a big impact on whether people will buy
Jen Hoskote 21:07
And it’s obviously it’s not just the burning, it is a combination, like what’s inside the bottle absolutely matters. But fortunately, we work with really good wine makers who are so open to feedback and want to know this stuff and have offered to like our well what works in Asia, like should we create something bespoke? So working with partners who get it and are open minded is really helpful as well. Very cool.
Chris Edwards 21:29
I wanted to ask you both. It’s such a journey, starting your own business and doing a few payments along the way. But I’d like to ask you, what are you most proud of,
Lizzie Marlow 21:38
I’m actually most proud of being different. So for me, like I am different. And I’m kind of, I’ll go to a trade fair. And I’ll be like, the only minimalist, everybody else is like more and more and it’s very maximalist, and lots of block prints and lots of colours. And that’s beautiful. And I love that as well. But I’m really proud of being different. Because, you know, I’ve had people today that just come and just like, they’re like, oh, my gosh, the calm. And I think for me, that’s when I’m really proud because it is hard being the black sheep or the monochrome Jeep, because, you know, you do feel different, and you get a lot of feedback, and you get a lot of Oh, really, and it takes a while to find your tribe. So actually, it’s hard. And so every time I do find my person who’s kind of really passionate about something that I’m passionate about, I’m even proud of, because I know that, you know, it’s been hard to do that. And you have to just back yourself. So I’m really proud of being different love that,
Jen Hoskote 22:31
I will latch on to that a little bit with the alternative packaging, to my knowledge, I’m the only supplier in Singapore doing something like that. So it can feel really scary and lonely at times. And getting the unsolicited feedback can be really tough. Like, why are you doing this? No one else is doing it. Like nobody’s gonna buy that. No one’s gonna do that. But I think because we, we believe in it. And it’s a long game, and getting in early and kind of solidifying ourselves as like, We’re the first ones to do this, because we believe it. So it’s hard to kind of staying the course. But I’m proud that we’ve we’ve stuck with it and are going to be bringing on more brands that do alternative packaging. So yeah, being different for sure. And just learning along the way, like being agile and just being able to shift and change. Yeah,
Chris Edwards 23:16
I’d like to add, I think you both very resilient and I think that’s something you might not see. But I can see it from here. The resilience muscle is the big one I see from both of you and lots of entrepreneurs in that you do get the unsolicited feedback, or the knock backs or the wrong turns or the wrong shipments. And you do have to just pick yourself up when the calendar doesn’t sell and, and you know, put it down to experience and kind of, you know, shake it off and move on. But it is a real lovely attribute I can see with both of us. So well done. Does anyone have any questions? Thank
Speaker 1 23:48
you very much. You mentioned a few times about finding your tribe. So my question actually, to both of you, how do you find your tribe? How do you know what is yours and what is not launch?
Jen Hoskote 24:00
Perfect plug? Well, yeah, obviously launch pad. Um, but also looking on LinkedIn, who’s in your industry, anybody that you admire, send them a message, be vulnerable, put yourself out there, people are really friendly and kind for the most part. And then also adjacent industries, I think you can get a lot of knowledge from adjacent industries as well. So same thing, if you see networking events that are going on, just go put yourself out there. It’s a bit scary, but it is rewarding, and you will get connections out of it that are willing to help you. Yeah,
Lizzie Marlow 24:30
I agree with that. Definitely. But also, I found a lot of my tribe through Instagram, actually. So my aesthetic is obviously very clear to myself. And I think that attracts your tribe. So like I said, if you are true to yourself, it does a try to tribe and so I’ve had lots of people just flat into my DMs and just be like I love it and then you start kind of conversations and some of my best friends now. I actually have met through Instagram and now we’ve been we’ve met up on trade shows and everything like that. So Have you like, if you’re true to yourself, and you keep on putting stuff out there, people naturally gravitate towards you. It’s like when you go into a room, and you actually, like, I know, I’m gonna be friends with that person before you’ve even spoken to them. You know, it’s that kind of, we’re all humans. And that connectivity is actually what drives us. So I think naturally, you do find your tribes, as soon as you stop putting yourself out there, you’ll tribal come. So
Speaker 2 25:21
quick question, again to both of you as well. Unfortunately, life is not like that. But if you had the choice between a straight linear entrepreneurial journey where everything just flows, and you never have to change, or the ups and downs and the pivoting left and right, would you want to go for the constant pivoting and adjusting? Or would you just be like, No, I’m going to stick to this and never change again, if you had that choice. I think
Jen Hoskote 25:48
when we all get started, you kind of think it’s gonna go like that. And then you learn very quickly, it’s not going to, but there’s so much value in those ups and downs. And even when you’re in it, it might feel like shit, and you’re like, Oh, God, why am I doing this, but you will come out the other side, and you’re stronger, smarter, faster, more more agile and resilient. It really builds the resiliency, and you back yourself more your passion for what you’re doing grows. So no, I definitely wouldn’t choose the linear. I’m here for it all.
Lizzie Marlow 26:20
Yeah, I agree. I mean, the linear would be great. But I didn’t know any entrepreneur who’s ever had that. I completely agree with Janice like that. I never started an art business. And now I can’t think of her a bit doing a business that doesn’t include any sort of illustrations. So I would have never had the confidence to be like, you know, here, am I this is my artwork, but actually, that’s how it’s happened. And that’s what’s kind of gaining the momentum. So I think the pivots produce the best outcome anyway.
Speaker 3 26:45
So I’m sure that you know, because you guys have already been in the corporate role before and then you’ve been through like the stress levels and all the changes. And is this that’s like exactly why you could do your own startup with managing on especially, you know, like, Who said that COVID had this like, Go Global shutdown, right? So apart from doing a business one time, like family handling everything like a mompreneur, right, like you, entrepreneur and a mompreneur, like, Do you have any other advice for the young people here? Like if they’re gonna start up? And then if they’re going through the ups and downs, how are they going to face it with better resilience and strength, and also cliche or Instagram.
Lizzie Marlow 27:26
So I hear you, there’s a lot going on, especially kind of female entrepreneurs, you’ve often have kids, and you’re trying to manage a lot of things as well. So the resilience, what I would say is try things first. So I would say, you know, if you are in the corporate world, dip your toe, you know, do the weekend work, you know, go to a couple of events on the side at around your job, maybe take a couple of days off, to try and test the waters before you kind of make that leap if you’re that way inclined. Because I think you will get confidence by going to the events, you will by putting yourself out there, which is the hardest thing, you will get that confidence from talking to people, you’ll then find friends who you go to another tradeshow and you might know one person, and then no two people and then you from then and then you’ll have the confidence. And you’ll also know what sells, you’ll get the feedback from your customers, you’ll see naturally what is selling or what isn’t selling, you can lean more into that. And then you’ll have the confidence to make that leap. And if you are in the corporate world, quit it and join us on the entrepreneurial world. But yeah, I would say just put yourself out there. But if you want to do it, you can do it slowly.
Jen Hoskote 28:28
Yeah, pretty much agree with with all of that, yeah, dip your toe, see if that’s what you want to do. Also, and I haven’t done this, but maybe look for a partner as well, because they’re, you’re sharing the load, you can lean on each other. And that’s one of the things that I actually think about often now as we get bigger, and as we grow, and as my son gets bigger and needs more of my time. So I think looking for sharing the load is also an important one.
Speaker 4 28:53
Hi, what’s the team of pivoting? Maybe not on a large scale of the business, but like, I mean, as entrepreneurs, as people who are perfectionist, you’re always looking to improve to do better in whether it’s product or in any area of a business, but when do you know when to stop or like not do it? You know?
Jen Hoskote 29:13
That is a great question. Um, you fight yourself internally, a lot, but then you do start to realise, like, what’s worth being a perfectionist about and for and what you can actually let go of that doesn’t even matter. It only matters to you in your own head, it doesn’t matter to anyone else doesn’t have an impact on the business. So you do learn over time, what’s worth being really anal about. And if it has a commercial impact, then you know, you’re gonna hang on to that even more. So it’s just time and experience, I think.
Lizzie Marlow 29:43
Yeah, and I think you will say like, my husband is the opposite of me. He’s very much like just get it done, put it out there and I think some things I listened to him and some things I don’t you know, the people who surround you and who support you and your business as well I think a very important and that really, really helps you. So when you start, you’ll have your friends who will all support you. And then you’ll naturally have people but you learn who to listen to. And I think, like you said, just trust your instincts, my natural instinct is to kind of sweat every single detail. And I have learned that actually, I don’t have time to sweat every single detail. If I did that the calendar is two months late, and no one buys it. So you learn through mistakes as well. And you know, like you said, when to sweat the small stuff and when not to,
Chris Edwards 30:26
I think that advice of listening to your gut is great advice, but also can be quite challenging. Like your gut can tell you so many things. So I’m just going to add journaling is a really great way like writing things down. I’m a big fan of a pros and cons list. Like, what does it look like this way? What does it look like that way? And, and also, I have another technique I love which is to make the decision. And then, like sleep on it after you’ve made the decision. And you’re No, that’s right. Okay. Like, I recently made a big decision. And it was the first time I had a full night’s sleep and wake sweat. Well, that was the right decision. But yes, so there are two techniques that I use, because it’s one of the hardest things about being solo entrepreneurs solo, right. You don’t have a board of directors often you don’t have a partner. But yeah, making the decisions is is a really hard bit of a journey. But yeah, wow, we’re all we’re all good. We’ve got it. Thank you so much, Lizzie. And Jen, it’s been an absolute delight. And like a proud mom, I’m so proud of you guys. So well done. And I appreciate you giving up your time today to share about your journey. Thank you. So what a wonderful chat that was with Lizzie and Jen, I have a couple of key takeaways. One is whilst pivoting is a completely overused word thanks to the pandemic. It is actually an important part of entrepreneurship. And especially when you’re starting out, I think you have to really be comfortable to adapt and constantly evolve and change to market conditions. The other big takeaway is you really need to be resilient. And you need to have the ability to learn from failures and not let them get to you but just see them as stepping stones to the right solution. And then finally, I think you can really test ideas on a small scale before fully committing to pivoting and that does reduce risks. So I hope you found this valuable. I do think communities are a great way to help you pivot. So if you are looking to experiment with a new idea or you want to test the market, if you are a member of Launchpad or some other kind of community where you can ask for feedback. It’s actually just a perfect testing ground to help you make changes in your business and successfully pivot. Thanks so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you found this episode helpful, or enlightening or engaging or educational, I would just love love love for you to leave a review, give us a rating or share it on your socials and tag us we’d love to know you’re listening and that you’re getting value. Finally, if you’re interested to learn more about Launchpad and join a community of conscious entrepreneurs that have purpose led and super supportive COMM And check us out, you can go to www dot the launchpad dot group. Thanks again for tuning into good business. My name is Chris Edwards, and I hope that you’re as inspired as I am to start or grow your own good business