The Ceiling is A Mirror: Jingjing Zhong’s journey building Superbench AI

Full Transcript

[Chris Edwards] (0:02 – 1:51)

Welcome to the Good Business Podcast. This podcast is designed to help you understand how you can create a business that’s not just good for people and the profit line, but also good for the planet. My name is Chris Edwards and I’ve been an entrepreneur for 15 years now.

Gosh, sounds like a long time. You may know me from my first business, which is a digital media business in Asia called Honeycombers. We have about 3 million readers a month.

Or maybe you know me from Launchpad, which is a community of conscious entrepreneurs. We’re clocking up to about almost 700 members and that community from over 11 countries. Today’s episode is, oh, it’s just such a wonderful episode.

It’s with a remarkable founder called Jingjing. Her energy is just to die for. We first met at the Launchpad Pitch Festival where she pitched her business Superbench AI, which is a platform that bridges the gap between customers, frontline workers, and companies in the help industry.

Her journey and her insightful thinking makes this episode really quite exceptional. We explore scaling a business and really going from her experience at Helpling to starting her own business Superbench AI. We talk about entrepreneurship, technology, and really creating impactful solutions and how businesses can actually just do so well when they’re solving real problems.

And yeah, there’s just so many nuggets of gold, particularly around generative AI, what she does when she’s hiring staff to her own

personal approach to networking. So much goodness. I love this episode.

Let’s get into it. So lovely to have you here on the pod, Jingjing. It’s been a while since we last caught up, which was at the Launchpad Pitch Festival.

Maybe you could just share with us the backstory about your business Superbench.

[Jingjing Zhong] (1:52 – 2:09)

Yeah, Superbench, it’s an AI powered operating system for home services companies. So think about, you know, everyday home service companies, they have a lot of coordination to do. That’s why it takes you a while to book, let’s say, an air contact mission.

And now we’re automating this process with Jing AI.

[Chris Edwards] (2:10 – 2:13)

And before you were at Superbench, you were at Helpling, right?

[Jingjing Zhong] (2:13 – 2:53)

That’s correct. Yeah, so I grew Helpling from 1 million AR to 30 million AR in four and a half years. And after that, you know, I was 27.

I had no dad, no husband. So I wanted to take some risks with my life. And that’s when I started to think about, maybe it’s a good time for me to start a company.

And then I started talking to all these partners I used to work for, you know, the home services companies, they all want to hire me to manage the P&L or other operations. And I realized they all face the same problem. So I decided, you know what, instead of, you know, solving patent for one company, why don’t we just solve a problem for the whole industry?

[Chris Edwards] (2:54 – 3:11)

It’s a really ambitious and courageous thing to do is to say, rather than just work in one company, I’m going to create my own. And I’m going to solve this problem for lots of people. What gave you the fuel or the courage to kind of do that?

[Jingjing Zhong] (3:11 – 3:49)

That’s a very good question. I’ve learned a lot in my four and a half years in helping and helping has been extremely supportive in my personal world, not just as a better manager, but also as a better person. As I’m going through, you know, therapy coaching, I realize there’s a lot of fear in insecurity from within.

But once I figure that out, once I have this courage, intrinsically, and I have no more, this insecurity from within. And that’s when I decided that, wow, like, really, there’s nothing stopping me from starting something other than my own willpower.

[Chris Edwards] (3:50 – 4:02)

That’s, that’s a pretty wise thing to learn at such a young age. So tell me, what were the things in your life that helped you find this comfort in the discomfort?

[Jingjing Zhong] (4:03 – 5:17)

Well, obviously, I’m working for Helplines. That’s one thing. Home difficult, traditional industry to crack, right?

Because people in the industry, they’re just so down to earth. And then they’re not very good at using the latest technology to grow the company. But once you crunch that formula, once you see the magic happen, not one time, two times, but 10 companies, 20 companies, you kind of see that, okay, this is not rocket science.

It’s a combination of how to work with people, process and technology. So that gives me a lot of confidence. But also, I think trying just to get to know myself more, have more self awareness, right?

And I think that this is really helpful. Like Gary 10 from YC, he says every single founders should have therapy before they start their own company. And then I’m very lucky that I had that before I started my company.

So I know I’m starting from the intention where I want to help people. And I have the ability to help people instead of fear of missing out, or chasing money or chasing, you know, other material things, right? Wow, that’s really cool.

[Chris Edwards] (5:17 – 5:39)

So we met at the Launchpad Fitch Festival. And we were just chatting before we hit record. And I want to talk about the funding because this is a really big piece, particularly when you’re building AI products, it’s an expensive industry that you’re in.

But yeah, how did you find the pitch festival? And what would you say to other founders that are thinking of fundraising or attending a pitch festival?

[Jingjing Zhong] (5:39 – 6:54)

Yeah, so first of all, thank you so much for putting together. I close my pre C round very quickly after the pitch festival, the people who attended the events, right? So the two people, Mikey from Epic Angel, and also Michael Blakely from Cocoon.

Well, these two, they were so helpful, not only at the pitch festival, but I also had a chat with them after the pitch festival. And both of them have given me so many great tips on how to pitch better. And then Michael, he even sat down with me for an hour, just to tell you that, okay, if you say this, me as investor, I think I will be thinking about this is your risk, right?

So like, oh, wow, but not only helping me to structure my pitch better, but also help me to see the business much in a clear way, right?

Because I’m building for the future, I need to bridge the gap in between what the problem they’re seeing right now, and what I envision the future operating system should be, right? I need to bridge the gap and communicate this vision to not just investors, but also my customers.

So yeah, thank you so much for putting it together. And I think without it, I don’t think I can close my rounds.

[Chris Edwards] (6:55 – 7:28)

That’s awesome. That’s awesome to hear. And I look, they are both really great humans.

And in fact, the judges that we have, they’re all there for the right reasons. I know both of those judges very well. And they are just good humans that want to help young entrepreneurs learn the game, right?

Because it is a bit of a game in terms of understanding your business from an investor’s perspective. So yeah, so you’ve just closed around. This is your first round.

Is that right? Yeah, that’s right. And so now you have runway for how long do you think?

[Jingjing Zhong] (7:28 – 7:48)

So our current burden is quite low. So we with the current brand, we have about two years, but you know, with the AI changing so fast, right, so we’re thinking about having a little bit of budget on the experimentation side of things. So with that, it will shorten our runway by let’s say three to four months.

[Chris Edwards] (7:48 – 8:02)

And have you found something difficult? Or do you feel like because of the nature of your product and the fact that you’re using AI, and the fact that you’re solving a real problem in your track record that you found it fairly easy to get investment?

[Jingjing Zhong] (8:02 – 8:59)

I see fundraising as a byproduct for building something that’s actually helpful. Same thing, even raising the next round, I’m sure you’ve gone through this journey, right? So I’m personally, I’m a honeycomb user at help lane, right?

We get a lot of traffic from honeycomb work. So when you build a business that actually drives value drives impact, the money will come. So I never find it because I’m good at pitching because I’m good at storytelling.

Therefore, I fundraise very quickly, I think is really because I spend the time, you know, doing patent discovery, and I really know the industry. And then I really have this willpower to change how things are being done in the industry. And that’s why investors, they think they believe in me and believing our team to build this up.

So I would say it was not easy. But at the same time, I think I’m very lucky to close it very quickly.

[Chris Edwards] (9:00 – 10:14)

Yeah, well, I’m not sure whether it’s luck, or it is actually just having a really great product. I think your point about, and by the way, I haven’t fundraised. So I haven’t been through the journey, I’ve bootstrapped my business.

But I definitely have seen over the years, I’ve had businesses that just don’t work and other businesses that just fly. And it’s just if you’ve if you’ve got a product that the market needs, it is a lot easier. And it, you know, it’s kind of used to use the analogy of like my business was literally a runaway train.

And I was just holding on, you know, like it was just growing so quickly at one point. And now it’s a little bit calmer. But I mean, we still grew 30% year on year last year, right?

And we are in year, we’re in year 16. So yeah, it’s, we’re in a nice space. But it’s really solving for a need that and delivering results.

I loved your post about your six life lessons. I think it was when you left HelpLane and you wrote on LinkedIn. That was a great article.

I want to just ask you about a few other points. One thing you talk about is your leverage. And you say find your leverage and double down.

Can you explain this point?

[Jingjing Zhong] (10:14 – 11:39)

Yeah, so I didn’t realize the world is full of leverage until, until I read Ray Dalio’s book, I follow him on Twitter on his LinkedIn, and obviously read his book principles. And later he talked about there’s a few ways to leverage the world. Obviously, he’s a master at leveraging money, right?

Capital is one way to leverage the world. And then actually, someone else, I think the founder of Angela could also talk about this in his book. So they talk about leveraging people is actually great way to leverage and lastly, relationship as well.

So I think for us is that there’s so many different levers that you can pull to help you to get to that fast track lane, right? So much easier. You don’t have to use, like for some people, it’s much harder for them if they don’t use those liver, right?

So I do think it’s crucial, especially as business owner, to see that what kind of levers you can pull at which time, do I need to use money to hire, you know, better tech, better people, or is now that we really need to leverage our people, internal employees to work together to collaborate. So I think once you figure out what’s the easiest way for

you to build your own leverage, and you know, when to use it to the right reason, that becomes your superpower, basically.

[Chris Edwards] (11:40 – 11:46)

And do you think a lot of people don’t think they have leverage, but they actually do? They’re just not looking for it?

[Jingjing Zhong] (11:47 – 12:19)

That’s a good question. Yeah, I actually believe everyone have their own strengths in different things. And how to utilize that strength and find leverage by using that strength is something that people don’t often think about.

I think you have to actually exercise that piece of muscle and then be aware of it. And then you can actually create leverage from that point on. But not being aware of your strength and weaknesses, I think that’s the start of not being able to find leverage.

[Chris Edwards] (12:20 – 12:40)

Yeah, I love that. I like your comment in your article about hiring to prioritize common sense and attitude over aptitude and skill. Can we talk about that for a minute?

So I’m wondering, how are you hiring for common sense? Like, what do you what do you do to do a common sense check on someone in an interview?

[Jingjing Zhong] (12:40 – 14:00)

So this example I really like to use is that so at Hillkling, we’re hiring, you know, customer support agents, for example, right? So we’ll give them a scenario. So let’s say a customer submit a complaint saying that your gardener cut my trees to a Christmas shape.

And I’m really upset. And you know, it’s really hot. It’s June right now.

And then I’ll see how they react. It’s June, right? You cut the tree to Christmas.

Obviously, customer had the right reason to be upset. Then the following question should be, did you communicate with a gardener how you want your tree to be cut it? And if customers that know, then that’s when we have to manage customers expectation.

And also, you can give an example, for example, if you go to hair salon, I just tell them, cut my hair, and don’t give them an example. And then they end up shaving your hair. Can you complain?

And so that’s when I tried to test people’s common sense to see what’s the following question that they normally ask, do they just take things as it is? Or do they have that wheel or that curiosity initiative to dig deeper to know the root cause of the problem? And that’s how I test common sense.

I’m sure there’s better ways. But you know, she wondering what’s your experience with the common sense kind of interviewing questions.

[Chris Edwards] (14:00 – 14:25)

That’s really interesting to know, I probably don’t talk about it as common sense, but I probably more think about it is problem solving. And I think I ask for people to tell me a problem that they’ve had and how they’ve solved it. But my question, my final question for you was, do you feel like young people today are lacking this more, this common sense problem solving skill?

[Jingjing Zhong] (14:25 – 15:15)

I would say it depends. I think you can see, I think it also depends on the education background and how much they’ve experienced in life. In general, what I found is that people will have more experience in life, they tend to have better problem solving skill sets.

And solve a problem, they can solve problem in many, many creative ways than just following the rubrics, you know, the SOPs. So, but these kind of people are someone like that I would love to work with. Because the last thing I want is someone, you know, who come in only do things I told them to do, right?

That’s not the best way for a person to learn. The best way to learn is just get your hands dirty and interpret things. That’s fine.

You know, first time when you make a mistake, that’s okay. And we correct it from there.

[Chris Edwards] (15:15 – 16:05)

I do find this piece around managing staff and encouraging problem solving really important, right? As the leader of a good company, you should be able to step out of the day to day and spend all your time thinking big picture, analyzing results and numbers and doing strategic pieces of work. And I think it is challenging to build up a team and takes time, right?

To build up a team that can can think how you would think in a in a challenging circumstance and not come to you with what what do we do here. But yeah, one thing you talk about is the value of networking. And this is something I love to talk about.

I’m very passionate about networking. But tell me in your own experience, how has networking helped you?

[Jingjing Zhong] (16:05 – 18:10)

Yeah, well, the launchpad event, you just keep saying hi to people, you know, I wanted to say hi to you when I first arrived, but I didn’t get a chance. So I knew I kind of felt like this was going to be our main topic today. So first of all, I’m an extrovert, right?

I love meeting new people. And every time when I talk to people previously before I’ve done therapy, right, I feel like, oh, my God, it’s

just a choice. You know, I feel like I’m better than them, you know, ego talking.

But now I feel like I can learn from every single person, even if they’re in a different industry, they’re doing something completely different. Every time I find a conversation just super interesting. And if I approach conversation in that lens, I keep digging, right, asking them questions, and they share more.

And I also learned them. And that makes networking super fun. And from what went on, I start building relationships with people, they start inviting me to different things.

And I meet more people like them. And then slowly, I just realize, oh, wow, like, my phone books start growing like I have like, I started out with five different students now have like 20. And but I remember stories for from all of them.

And then each time they’re just so helpful. So I think growing your network, this is something that every single young person should do, especially when you go in as I want to learn more of the world, right? I think every single senior, right, people who have worked in a long time, they all have this will to give back, but they don’t know.

But if you approach them in in a way that I hate, I really I like I love what you’ve done. I really want to learn from you. And then can you share how did you started lunch for example, right?

I knew it was your hobby during pandemic. And now look at it, it’s like flourishing. So this becomes something that you can really take away and learn from and you can learn when you grow as a person.

So it’s a win-win for yourself and also for the whole community.

[Chris Edwards] (18:11 – 18:53)

I think two things that stand out from what you’ve said there is you have a really amazing zest of curiosity. And that fuels you, which is why networking is easy for you. Also, I get a very strong sense that you incredibly positive person and can always find value in everything.

So what would you say to people that aren’t extroverts? Like have you got people on your team that are introverts and you’re trying to encourage them to spend the energy because there’s a lot more energy for introverts to to kind of build their network. What’s your tips for people that don’t have quite the same, you know, I like to call it needy extrovert nature that you and I would have.

What do you say to introverts?

[Jingjing Zhong] (18:53 – 19:35)

Yeah, I think there’s always something that excites you, right? Regardless, your introvert or extrovert, I get excited by people in general. While my co-founder, for example, he’s really geeky on Gen AI stuff.

So he goes to all the Gen AI events. He’s happily, you know, attending three or four of them and he just learns. He loves talking to them, talking about detect, talking about all these things or how to build a better product.

So when there’s those events, I’ll send him to those events. And then he loves networking in that context versus for me, I just like, I just like people. So I would just talk to anyone and we have really like complimentary skill sets.

[Chris Edwards] (19:36 – 19:56)

It sounds like it. Yeah, sounds perfect. Let’s read deep tech for a second.

I mean, I find the expression deep tech slightly scary and overwhelming. Maybe it’s because of my age, but what do you think entrepreneurs need to be thinking about with AI and tech? You know, what’s your advice for people who are running businesses right now?

[Jingjing Zhong] (19:56 – 21:51)

How do you see the future? First of all, I probably would not consider Gen AI as deep tech unless you’re training your own model and building your own large language model. But one thing I know for sure is that Gen AI is here to stay.

So, so far I’ve done demos to at least let’s say 10, 20 companies and also phones and family, right? And their expression, right, if let’s say for cleaning companies, if I demo it to the boss, the boss will be like, Oh my God, can I have it tomorrow? Can you not sell it to my competitor?

Like they will be like, let’s sign an exclusivity, right? Or if I show it to their employees, initially they’ll be like, Oh my God, this is so great. It’s helping me build it over the job.

But then when I tell them, okay, AI cannot see if you’re a rug, there’s a, is that a design or is that dirt? So we still need people there. And also if you have customers complaining, let’s say their vacuum is broken.

That’s when when people need to step in and that’s the worst time to use AI. We need human touch to deliver the best customer experience, but they just wouldn’t believe it. And they just have this fear to reject us because they think that, okay, I’m going to take it.

This is going to take over my job. AI is not going to take over the job. If people who knows how to use Gen AI will take over the job.

And these people have ultimate job security because they can do 100 people’s jobs and the boss is going to be super happy, right? Versus if you’re still one of those 100 people who don’t use Gen AI. Yeah, I would say that fear is real.

So I’m like, I’m trying to host these like free workshops and teaching people how to use Gen AI in the most simplest way to boost your productivity because this will be part of our lives. And in the future, all the entry level jobs probably will be reduced by 80, 90%.

[Chris Edwards] (21:51 – 21:57)

Okay. And the Cliff Notes, tell me the Cliff Notes. How do people use Gen AI to boost productivity?

[Jingjing Zhong] (21:57 – 23:48)

Oh, that’s a very good point. Okay. So it depends on what job they’re doing.

So for basic, right? So if you just pay for GPT-4, right? Pay for the premium version.

And each time if you need to do a job, right? Just go to GPTs to search it. For example, legal GPTs, accounting GPTs, PR GPTs, right?

Use that to sense check whatever Gen you want to get done. And also that’s number one. Number two, also learn pump engineering.

It’s not that short. There’s so many tutorials. Just learn pump engineer 101, watch five minutes video, you’re good.

Just these two things is good enough. So especially if let’s say you’re in a creative role, always use GPTs or any of the, you know, models. Let’s say there’s a lot of graphic models out there.

I’m not going to name most of them. That can get you so far, right? It gets the baseline foundation and you can use that and then start doing your own customization and make it look much better.

But this saves you at least, I don’t know, a day or two. I’ve heard teams previously, it takes them two weeks to set up a marketing campaign. Now one marketing associate can set up five campaigns in a day.

And that’s using chat GPT. So they use a combination of different things. So they use a sales tools.

They also use a GPT powered video tools to create, let’s say, a short video of their company’s sales material. But they also like use a lot of graphic designs and then there’s tons of like Atria is one of them to set up, you know, different campaigns. What messaging should you do?

Yeah, there’s tons of tools. And then it’s honestly all of our jobs to try to see which one works the best. There’s so many different kind of, you know, messaging platform, right?

You just need to see which one clicks with you and then the UI works for you and then just stick with it.

[Chris Edwards] (23:49 – 24:45)

So Jing-Ging, I’ve got lots of Jing-Ging staff that write content for me, social media posts, and I encourage them to use chat GPT. But when they send it to me, I find it feels very impersonal, kind of like not very authentic. And I tend to just rewrite everything.

But yeah, I just I feel like there’s such a big gap, particularly when it comes to marketing content creation. And I feel like right now, because I don’t, I don’t believe the tech, maybe I haven’t been using the right tools, but I don’t believe the tech is good enough. And I feel like it’s actually short changing yourself to not spend the time to write content.

What do you say to something like that? Because that’s kind of a bit of a negative spin on the AI front. But do you agree with me?

Do you see that? Do you see a lot of content that you’re like, Oh, it’s hard to engage with because I know a computer wrote it.

[Jingjing Zhong] (24:45 – 25:51)

I think it’s quite clear when you scroll on LinkedIn, who uses chat GPT, who doesn’t write, but for people who use prompt engineering quite well. So currently GPT 4.0 definitely has the best performance. But the problem with it is it’s wordy.

And also it has a separate, like it has different ways to give you the response, right? So if someone used prompt engineering correctly, they know how to, let’s say, if you are used to writing something on your own, they can insert it, copy the style, the return will be following your style, right? But still they do think AI Gen AI is not going to be as good as the trim of the crop, right?

If you are really good at what you’re doing, you have the job security. That’s for sure. But the question is for the next generation, it’s hard for them to not have so entry jobs, entry level jobs is going to be reduced, right?

If they don’t go through that training, how can they rise to the top? That’s something I don’t know either.

[Chris Edwards] (25:51 – 26:50)

Yeah. And I suppose my expectation is that people use the tools. And maybe the next part of training is really that prompt engineering or that editing of the work, like letting the computers do 70%, but then knowing how to tweak it.

But you know, even just getting the words down on the page helps you with that task of, you know, staring at a blank page and going, I’m going to write something. It can be quite daunting, but rather editing something that’s been written seems to me quite a lot easier. But yeah, you’re absolutely right in that the next generation of people, they need to start learning these prompt engineering now because the computers will only get better and better, right?

Yeah. I’m really out of time, but I’m really enjoying this conversation and I’m taking it off into the side roads that I never expected. One thing that you’ve said is that you’re a work in progress.

What are you working on now?

[Jingjing Zhong] (26:50 – 27:52)

So right now, because we’re so early stage, and even if our team, you know, we’re strong in tech and product, we’ll realize because I have the industry domain knowledge, I still need to be very good at product discovery. So right now, I’m learning a lot of product management, you know, early stage, how to build an MVP, how to build prototyping without actually build a product, right? So that’s the part where I’m focusing on, try to get as many feedback as feasible from our clients.

So we know that we’re building a software that people actually want to use instead of building it in silos. So a lot of people think that, okay, I’m not good at this good and that, but actually, I think the ceiling, the cap of how much you can grow, it’s a mirror reflecting yourself. So there’s no one really, no one really out there to keep your growth.

You are the reason, you’re the only reason that you’re not getting well, right? So I think this is a phase that my friend kind of civilize it for me and I am still here now, I think it’s great.

[Chris Edwards] (27:53 – 28:54)

So the ceiling is a mirror means basically that there is no ceiling. I have an expression I like to use when I’m talking to entrepreneurs, and that is what if it turns out even better than you expect. And I think lots of people never think big enough.

And the only, and I think this is what you’re saying with the ceiling is mirror, but the only thing limiting you is you, right? But, and we all limit ourselves all the time. And it’s like a big default in the human design, particularly the female version, is we always think of all the reasons we can’t, as opposed to all the reasons that we can.

So, yeah, I have a very fondness for that expression to the ceiling is mirror. It’s good. It’s good.

And you’re wildly passionate. You’re doing a lot. You’re constantly waiting.

How do you get balance in your life? Like, what do you do? How do you switch off and create boundaries and make sure that, you know, you’re not working 24 seven, seven days a week.

[Jingjing Zhong] (28:54 – 29:23)

So I make sure I have at least one day off during the week. And in the evening, I try to switch off my 10 and read a little bit and then go to bed and wake up at 6 30 and work out in the morning. So morning, it’s kind of my alone time.

It’s me time. I use that time to read, to meditate, to journal, to think about things. So by the time we start working our company, we start 10 by the time we start working already half my time.

So I’m ready to go.

[Chris Edwards] (29:23 – 29:40)

And then so you start at 10 and I love the morning routine. I think I’m a big one, a big advocate of that too, because I feel like if you don’t do it first thing in the morning, it’s very hard to pull yourself away and get it done that that leisure time and that me time. Oh, I love your work.

I think tell me about your play to win philosophy.

[Jingjing Zhong] (29:41 – 1:28)

So play to win this is okay. I wrote this article like last year, right? I think right now is I will change a little bit instead of play to win to I think winning is a result of you’ve given your best to everything right if you want to do something do it with your whole energy.

That’s my new philosophy right now, have faith, what people call it this dumb faith, and I have full energy, just do it. And then winning it’s an outcome of this faith of this energy that you bring into this whole thing that you’re doing. But if you know, okay, this is not my area of expertise.

For example, I wanted to start an early childhood education startup. And then I even put together a children like I found like five children I just read storytelling books to them and all enjoyed it. When my co-founder was like draining because there’s just too much energy, right?

I realized we don’t have the honor of fit for this, even if I’m super passionate. So I think we need to be smart with where we allocate our energy, you need to know that okay, this is I know this role probably not too much. I know this role better than those old other roads, right?

So why don’t we go for that. And then we know we need to pivot here and there. But still, I’m targeting the same group of people same industry.

I know this the best advantage here. So that’s when it’s the right time to go full force in this direction.

[Chris Edwards] ()

Oh, Jingjing, I just love your energy and your passion and your, I suppose it’s just your zest for the entrepreneurial challenge. It’s been an absolute joy having you on the show. And I’m like, Oh, I’m gonna have to get you to come to Launchpad and talk more about generative AI to our community.

But thank you so much for your time today. Oh my gosh, how amazing was that chat? Doesn’t Jingjing just have the most effervescent personality and energy?

It’s just contagious. So I just wanted to share my three takeaways from this conversation. The first one is around generative AI and how we all have a responsibility to really jump in and learn this because it’s not going away and we really need to harness it.

So prompt engineering was a thing I wrote down and something that I think I’m going to be putting at the top of my list. Another thing I loved was the deep conversation we had around her expression is the ceiling is just a mirror. And I fundamentally 100% agree with this point.

And that is that we are only limited by our own beliefs and ourselves, which is something that once you realize is really empowering and liberating. So I loved this point. And then lastly, I really loved her, I suppose her approach to networking and the fact that if you’re curious and open minded, that you can learn something from absolutely everyone you talk to.

And that’s why Jingjing loves networking and obviously so good at it. So many nuggets, but there’s my top three. I hope you found this interview as inspiring as I did.

And if you’re an entrepreneur in your journey, please hit me up in the DMs or come and check out Launchpad. It’s www.thelaunchpad.group. We are a bunch of beautiful humans that are supporting each other and building together businesses that are ethical and conscious. And we’d love to hear from you.

Before I close out today, I just want to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land of which I’m recording this podcast, which is the Arakwal people of the Bundjalung nation. I’m here on beautiful Byron Bay. This podcast was actually recorded in Byron Bay, Hong Kong and Singapore.

Isn’t that just the technology of today? Anyway, I pay my respects to these elders past, present and future. And I extend my respects to all traditional cultures.

My name is Chris Edwards, and I hope that you are as inspired as I am to create your own good business.