Episode 12: Max Rye on building food technology company TurtleTree

Full Transcript

Chris Edwards (03:40)

Hey, Max, so great that you can join me here today. Thank you.

Max Rye (03:44)

Well, thank you, Chris. Thank you for inviting me.

Chris Edwards (03:46)

I’m so intrigued by TurtleTree. Let’s start at the beginning. Can you tell us what is TurtleTree? And what are you doing?

Max Rye (03:53)

Yeah, so we are actually a biotech company. And we’re using technologies like precision fermentation to produce dairy bioactive ingredients. And so we all have milk proteins, but without the cow. Now, we’ve been known to be using cells to make real full milk. However, in the early days, we’re using our precision fermentation technology, which really uses microbes in those microbes, then ingest sugar and then output that identical protein that comes from the cow.

Chris Edwards (04:24)

Cool. And where are you on your journey? Are you at the minute producing products that people can buy?

Max Rye (04:32)

So we are actually very close. Very close. As a matter of fact, we are preparing a launch in 2023 this year, and we are at the stage of regulatory approval and scaling up for the market at this stage.

Chris Edwards (04:46)

Yeah, cool. And I first came across TurtleTree because you were involved in cop 27 as Singapore’s beverage partner, so congratulations on that. And that was with an Energy drink that you have produced. So tell me about that product.

Max Rye (05:05)

Sure. So just to give you some idea, the first protein that we’re launching to market is something called lactoferrin. And many people may not know this, people in the infant formula industry know this, because it’s one of the most highly sought after protein in the world for babies, because this is something that’s very high concentration and colostrum, and mother’s milk, it has all of these benefits around immunity, gut health, gut brain for children, however, it has a lot of the same benefits for adults as well. So what we are able to do is not just have milk products, but if you can imagine a lot of sports, nutrition, adult nutrition, all different parts that can have many of the same benefits from this powerhouse protein, we’re able to do that. And one of the things that we’re doing is we’re looking at different applications, sports, nutrition, and energy drinks is one of those areas, how can you have an energy drink without the crash, and that’s actually good for you. That’s something that we’re not used to. However, we are able to do that. And that’s what we showcased at COP 27 is the future of sustainability can also look to be better-for-you type of ingredient with lactoferrin. And that’s what we were able to showcase at the cop 27

Chris Edwards (06:18)

Yeah, cool. And tell me what was cop 27 like?

Max Rye (06:21)

it was massive. It was Egypt, there were some challenges. I think for the overall event. In some regards. I don’t think the infrastructure was there for an event of that size. But Singapore did an amazing job, they put together an amazing booth, the pavilion, I would say, a great host of great events, and ministers came from all over many different nations and so forth as well. And we were able to get so much spotlight actually there. So that was significant for us, our CEO of Fengru was there. A lot of our team members came and we really represented Singapore and actually just the whole space quite well.

Chris Edwards (06:59)

Yeah, cool. It’s interesting that Singapore really is taking a big step forward in food technology with sustainability. It seems like the government’s very focused on food technology. And I suppose I’d be interested in your view on that in terms of where are we going to be in terms of food, tech, and then food intelligence in the next few years.

Max Rye (07:24)

I mean, if you look at Singapore, Singapore doesn’t have much of a choice, it imports almost all of its food for this entire country, right? It’s a small nation, unlike coming from the US, or you’re in Australia, you guys have an abundance of land and food. This is not one of those types of countries. And it was really highlighted during the COVID situation, when a lot of the food off the shelves were being swiped. And they know they have to import everything in, it was a big scare. And really the country has put even more effort into meeting their food security goals. So therefore they have to open up, there’s no lobbies, here, right, they have to open up and look at other solutions. Now cell based meat as well as precision fermentation, dairy, all of these are things that they are very proactive in for them. It’s about how we get access to the best food, not necessarily what’s good for for certain stakeholders. And so I think it’s been a great platform, a great place, they’re very science driven. So safety, and so forth is all there, they just want to make sure that this stuff can scale, and they can provide for the masses. So I think it’s been a great environment. Now regulatory wise, but also, if you look at the region of Asia, Singapore, as you probably know, is a launchpad to all these different places, many of these, these countries around this region, look to Singapore to be a leader in technology and so forth. So that also makes Singapore a great place to be.

Chris Edwards (08:58)

And is that how you ended up here, Max? You know, were you obviously originally from the States. And yeah, I’d love to hear your journey.

Max Rye (09:06)

Sure. So for the past 20 years, I was in the tech industry, I was a CEO of a tech company in Silicon Valley, and really enjoyed building scaling tech companies. However, I got much more involved in sustainability, climate impact several years ago, and I complained about it for a lot longer than other people are not doing enough about it. But I figured at the right time, I want to get one involving myself, take a lot of my leadership skills, and get in it, see how I can contribute. And that’s really how my journey started. I exited my previous tech company. I took some time to get more involved in this climate change, you know, solutions area. And really, I was invited to give talks on it in Google headquarters here in Singapore. I mean, this is following doing some talks in California. But that was my first introduction to Singapore and I was just blown away. i thought that this was such an amazing place to do this project. And I met my current CEO who was working at Google at that time. And that’s how we first originated this idea, this concept and the journey.

Chris Edwards (10:13)

Yeah. And I’m just reflecting on what you said earlier, I suppose not having lobbies in Singapore, like not having big farming backgrounds means that the government does have more incentive to get into food technology. And that’s really unique compared to other markets. Right?

Max Rye (10:32)

Yeah. I think one thing that I have learned over time, and I think a lot of people out there should consider is just how much politics plays into business as well. Technology doesn’t always triumph. Right? The best technology doesn’t always win. Because sometimes there’s a lot of politics involved and lobbyists involved as well in the status quo. So for me, Singapore was a no-brainer, because when I got here, there was so much potential, because the government itself is backing a lot of this because they need these types of solutions.

Chris Edwards (11:07)

And I want to talk a little bit more about yourself and your CEO. I understand you both enrolled in an EMBA program together, is that right?

Max Rye (11:18)

Yes, yes. And this is after we started the company. It’s really interesting, because for us, we understand business to the point where we’re like, hey, this, and when you get to a part of your company that is growing. At some point, if you are not up to the mark, you have to do what’s best for the company, right. And that means you might be replaced by a better CEO, or a better chief strategist, that’s just a part of the journey. A lot of entrepreneurs don’t want to under don’t want to believe that. But starting a company in the first phase is one thing. But if you want to grow it to be a multi billion dollar industry, you have to be up to the mark. So we thought about this throughout this journey, especially on COVID. We thought why not enroll in EMBA program, to improve ourselves as business entrepreneurs. So then when we get to that stage at the company, we can be the best people for this company. And if we’re not, then I think we will have to be open to bringing in other CEOs or other executives to help fill these roles. As an entrepreneur, you always have to think about what’s best for the company. And that is how we thought about this journey. Continuing our education, this might not be over, we might actually go back to school, do something else in a few years from now. But it’s always about being the best person for the role.

Chris Edwards (12:36)

And tell me, did you find the EMBA valuable and practical? And did you come out with a totally different approach to what you were doing?

Max Rye (12:45)

You know, what’s so funny is during the program, actually, we were able to implement many of these tools, I guess you could say, in real time into the company that helped to improve a lot of stuff that we’re doing. This could be different case studies that we went through different other types of management tools, software, all the stuff that we learned a lot of that we were able to implement in real time, which was really great.

Chris Edwards (13:07)

So you would have gotten actually more value out of your MBA than a regular student because you were able to go and test and apply things right away. And did you ever come back to your lectures and go, This doesn’t work as well as you’re telling me it should? Or did you have any feedback?

Max Rye (13:23)

Yeah, I mean, what was interesting is for Fengru and I both in most EMBA programs, they have a class project as well. And everybody has to pitch a project and one gets chosen, and the whole class kind of works on it together. So it was almost really cool. We actually got chosen as the class project, where the whole class was working on TurtleTree in many different areas or aspects or angles. So this whole thing turned out to be really amazing. And, yes, they also learned that some other toolkits may not work as effectively for this type of business. And I think that the directors also found it very helpful.

Chris Edwards (14:03)

Ah, yeah, that’s super cool. So I wanted to ask you about your background. I understand that neither of you, you or Fengru do actually have a food technology background, right? So that’s super surprising to learn. How did you get into food technology without a food tech background?

Max Rye (14:23)

That’s a really good question. And really coming from an IT or engineering and tech background. It was very different. But when I looked at this whole situation it wasn’t about whether its food or not was how big of an impact it had on climate change. And then from that point, I looked at how I could be in debt to others’ journeys. So I went to this little MIT course around biotech to get caught up. And then I spent a lot more time learning about space. But there are a lot of things around innovation opportunities that are very similar to tech I was able to bring over. But early days, there was a learning curve though, Chris, that that there’s no doubt about that. But this is still a very new field because food is one thing, traditional food is one thing but food tech and biotech, and merging the both together is still relatively new as a field. So because of that, it allows myself and Fengru to reinvent ourselves and really put ourselves in a leadership position in this whole industry, because it’s a very nascent industry. But if you were thinking about pharma and biopharma that would have been much more difficult for us to crack, because in those situations, they would look for hardcore pharma folks from the get go.

Chris Edwards (15:46)

This podcast is brought to you by Launchpad, a community movement for conscious entrepreneurs. If you’re seeking a sounding board advice, masterclasses, or maybe just looking for a network of people that are in your corner to support you come to the launch pad, dot Group website and check it out. We’d love to meet you. When it comes to milk substitutes, where do you see the world? How fast are we going to be changing? Like how fast do you see? I mean, obviously, in the last few years, we’re seeing a lot of milk alternatives soy, and soy coconut, I’ve got a range in my fridge. You can choose what kind of milk you want. But yeah, I’m interested to know where do you how quickly do you see it changing for society from you know, will anyone be drinking cow’s milk in 10 years time?

Max Rye (16:37)

Well, you know, that is an interesting question. And there is no 100% right answer that I’m going to be able to give you but what I can tell you is all of these options, everything from oat almond, and so forth, these are all going to be different options. The challenge is going to be how good is it for you? These are the questions that mothers ask us all the time, like, what am I going to feed my kids? Is this really that good for my kid? Am I lacking some important vitamins that are found in milk or some proteins that are found in milk that might need those answers or continue to come out? And the answer is actually yes, there are some things missing in oat milk and other types of alternative milks that real milk does have. And our team put a lot of time around this a lot of research and work, we are working very closely with UC Davis, which are some of the leaders in this whole bioactive milk space. Lactoferrin happens to be one of those very valuable proteins that all kids need. And starts off even from breast milk as a matter of fact. So how can we produce lactoferrin and maybe actually merge it with old milk or so forth, then all of a sudden, you have a very sustainable product that’s also really nutritious and good for you, good for your immunity and all these type of things that real milk is supposed to do for you.

Chris Edwards (17:56)

You know, I suppose some people even just question the fact that we are the only species that drinks another’s milk, right? So there are a lot of environmental, so people that think it’s already weird that we drink cow’s milk, but it is, I suppose, society thing that we’ve do give our kids milk and you know, if we don’t breastfeed them, then we use a formula that I do also wonder how quickly it’s all going to change. What’s your view on that?

Max Rye (18:24)

Okay, I’m not a vegan, I’m going to be as practical as possible, because I actually do still eat meat, and I do still consume some of these products. So for me, it’s about what’s delicious, what’s good for me, it was good for the planet as well, right? So I’m going to tell you, honestly, there are good things that are found in milk, there’s a reason why we drink it. I’ve heard of this whole phrase that we’re still the only, you know, species that drinks and other milk. But we’re also the only species that drives cars. And we will have the only species that have been out of things. So I can’t necessarily use that. But what I can tell you is looking at science, trying to figure out what’s good in the milk that we’re drinking has to be the approach. And if we can figure that out, which I think we have, then I think we can build a better milk of the future where we don’t have to get it from cows, it can be identical, we can leave out the bad stuff like lactose, which is a lot of people are intolerant, but we can bring in the stuff that’s really identical and has some benefit has a lot of benefits. And we can make a better product that I think is the future. I don’t think the future is trying to go back to original cow milk or even making the original cow milk identical. Because a lot of divisional calendar may not even be the best for us.

Chris Edwards (19:33)

Hmm, cool. And so I’d love to dig deep more about TurtleTree like so the current focus of the business is really the tech innovation. And I presume that you’ve also doing rounds of funding. Where are you on that journey? And what is like as the chief strategist for this company, what does day to day look like for you?

Max Rye (19:54)

Well, we have multiple teams, scientific teams, the business teams, the marketing teams, everyone working in parallel. 2023 is going to be a big year for us, we’re going to commercialise our first product, they’re going to be on the shelves. So we have that team working, the scientific team is also looking at how they can make more improvements around this protein and how much more of it we can produce with our platform. And then on the funding side, we are looking to have another funding round sometime this year so of course, when you get ready for commercialization, you need another round of funding to really get yourself out there and get the production going. So all of these things are happening in parallel. So far, they’re all going really well, we have been able to onboard some world class talent. Some folks that traditionally have not been a part of the space, they’re more unsaved for categories like pharma, but have left that now to come join us to accelerate what we’re doing in this space. I would say that, right now, all hands on deck for commercialization, and those funding activities will be wrapped around it.

Chris Edwards (20:59)

And I heard that you’re the fourth person you hired was actually a HR business partner, which is kind of intriguing, right? Because usually, when you’re growing really quickly, and you’re just trying to get operations going, hiring HR usually comes a bit later, not as high. Number four, talk me through that strategy.

Max Rye (21:21)

I think this is very important for entrepreneurs to understand, because we think we know everything. But even though I’ve been in business for 15-20 years, one thing I’ve figured out is that I don’t know everything. And I may not be the best purchaser to do some things. And that is hiring sometimes, I may not be the best judge when it comes to seeing if someone is qualified to work for me or not. Despite the number of years I’ve been doing this. So we understood this very early on. And I think what we did, has been an amazing move. It’s helped us to land some big, big talented folks. And it’s also helped us to bring in the right people early on. The last thing that you want is left turnover, because you’ve made a lot of mistakes. And we’ve done a great job from the get go the right foundation, the right packages for the right talent, because of our HR business partner who is today our Chief People Officer now. And the really the backbone of the company. And I think that goes a long ways. I would say I would recommend this to all entrepreneurs, look for some outside assistance in the early days to help with your talent acquisition and with your hiring. Because sometimes you may not be the right person to hire or to assess someone’s abilities. And I had been told many times, by the way, this is I’ve been told many times I’ve gone to Fiona Archie our Chief People Officer now. Hey, I think this is an amazing candidate, we should hire this person right now. And she’s like, No, we’re not hiring this person. And I’m like, okay, and she will give me the reasons. And almost every time she has been right about it, because this is what she’s good at. This is what she looks out for. And I think this is something that all entrepreneurs should think about.

Chris Edwards (23:07)

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s a really good point. And I know, in my own business, I didn’t have anyone in HR for the first I think about eight years. And as soon as I hired our HR manager, our life got easier, you know, like a lot easier. Because it is a real skill set. And it’s such a big part of what makes your company work is getting the right people in the right seats,

Max Rye (23:31)

understanding motivation to write understanding, what is the motivation, how there’s a two way street, you’re not just hiring someone, you’re also trying to see how you can help them along on their journey on their path. And having a professional really assess that really talking them through that can really bring out the best in the type of people you’re looking for.

Chris Edwards (23:49)

Yeah, yes. 100%. Going back to your funding, you’ve actually closed some really quite sizable rounds, I think your Series A round was 30 million. Is that right?

Max Rye (24:00)

Yes.

Chris Edwards (24:00)

That’s quite a big amount. What did you use that money for? Like, where are you investing that money.

Max Rye (24:06)

So a lot of our money is being invested in the R&D team. So we are a very R&D heavy company. That means we are all about cutting edge technology cutting edge processes. So just to let you know, we are a Singapore headquartered company. But some of the best talent in the world around biotech is actually still in the US. And Boston, for example, Boston, the majority of the world’s money around biotech actually goes into that one city, because MIT, Harvard and a number of other institutions. And a lot of it’s an amazing ecosystem. So we have a lab there as well. We have a lab in Boston. And we have a lab in California for very much the same reasons. It’s all about the talent and the technology acquisition and in the ecosystem. So that is still the majority of where our funding has gone into. And then of course, a lot of it’s also starting to scale up and production runs before are a lot of our products that we’re looking to launch. So that’s where current. And then one more thing, the manpower, right? The talent, if you want to bring in top talent, you have to be well funded. So that’s helped us to continue to accelerate and what we’re doing,

Chris Edwards (25:14)

I’m imagine that your competitors would be on a global scale as well. So are your biggest competitors in the US? Or are they in Singapore?

Max Rye (25:22)

Our biggest competitors are in the US as a matter of fact. And I think what makes us unique is the fact that we have a footprint in both areas. And but we feel we’re closer to the market that has the highest demand for some of our products. Asia, for example, in general is looking for more proteins. And this is where we should be. But the tech No, I think, I think it’s just well thought out the way we did it. We have a lot of our market access in Asia. So we have our corporate HQ here. And then R&D wise, we’re in the US where the cutting edge r&d is happening. So I just think we did it right. We don’t have any competitors who have actually copied our model. If this is a success, we definitely expect more and more companies to start thinking around this.

Chris Edwards (26:07)

Now follow you. So I’ve got one more question. And it’s a big one. So I feel like you’re really disrupting the milk industry. Like that’s kind of what TurtleTree is all about. I’m interested to ask you, if there was another industry that you could disrupt or an industry that you think needs disruption, what would it be?

Max Rye (26:30)

So I thought about this in the past, and I actually think education is really an area that I would love to do, and wise, because coming from California and Silicon Valley, where we really have a lot of divergent thinking, different ways of thinking about innovation, and so forth. And when I came here to Singapore, or Asia, in general, I see much more of a hierarchical system, passive thinking type of system here. And I felt there’s a lot that we can bring from cutting edge innovative regions into this place when it comes to thinking, and education goes in that way. So I think looking for ways to using using technology, of course, to bring in certain education, certain mentoring, or a process work, which can help the youth think outside the box is something that I would think would be quite cool.

Chris Edwards (27:18)

And so needed in the challenges that we’re facing right? To be able to think creatively. Okay, I have some rapid fire questions for you. First of all, what do you feel are good businesses?

Max Rye (27:31)

I would say, I think creating long term value rather than short term gains is really important. And we see this, we see this across the world, people are looking how fast they can make them make money. Instead of looking at they can build relationships, right? I’m a big fan of a pop forming. Actually, he was the CEO of Unilever, Nestle, and he’s all about creating business for good. And one of the biggest, here’s a quote, We cannot choose between growth and sustainability, we have to have both. So I think a good business is one that can combine growth and sustainability.

Chris Edwards (28:06)

Yeah, I love that. Okay. Do you have any business advice or mantras that you live by?

Max Rye (28:12)

I would definitely say put as much effort into building relationships as building a profitable balance sheet. They’re both very interrelated. And I think that’s something that is all about, once again, going back to building long term value.

Chris Edwards (28:25)

I love that. I love that. Tell me which of these expressions resonates for you the most luck favors the open mind, or fortune favors the bold?

Max Rye (28:35)

from this whole industry, it’s all about Fortune favors the bold, you got to take risks. If you’re going to have anything that remotely to happen. That’s spectacular. You know, so Fengru now we took this huge leap from whole, this whole cushy tech industry, and we did something completely different. And if you want something amazing to happen, you got to take big risks. And this is something that I very much believe in.

Chris Edwards (28:57)

Yeah, great. I love that. You’ve kind of answered this. But let me ask you anyway, what does community mean for TurtleTree?

Max Rye (29:04)

I think for us, it’s really about creating a space for people to really embrace their identities, company culture, and the way we plan to enter the market. The products that we’re enabling for people of lifestyle is one of those can vegans for example, all of a sudden now have access to nutritionally identical benefit proteins like lactoferrin, without compromising their values. That’s what it’s really about is how do we give access to consumers out there to things that they currently just don’t have very much of lactoferrin by the way, whether it’s coming from cows or not, is something that’s highly sought after, and many parts of the of Asia in the world don’t have it because there’s not enough of it.

Chris Edwards (29:46)

So interesting. Okay, great. Do you have a favorite business book or business podcasts that you’d like to recommend?

Max Rye (29:53)

Well, coming from the tech industry, a big one is really Play bigger, but Al Ramadan. It’s really good because it’s all about category. designed. And when you’re talking about cutting edge stuff, you really have to ask yourself, Do I really want to make the same thing that everybody else has? Or do I want to create a brand new type of dessert? For example? Do I want to think outside the box and create a whole new category? And if you can get that right, you have huge potential, and you could open up a whole new market. So play bigger is one of those books that I really liked. Quite a bit.

Chris Edwards (30:25)

And love it. Okay, great. I will put this in our show notes. So for anyone listening, jump on to the launchpad website to have a look at the links to this book, play the art sounds great. And my last question to you, Max is at Launchpad, we believe a rising tide floats all boats. It’s one of our favorite expressions. And I was wondering, do you have an entrepreneur that we should invite onto this podcast to talk about their business and their priorities of people planet and profits?

Max Rye (30:53)

It’s funny, you mentioned that I just met with a friend of mine yesterday, his name is Bert Grobin. And he is somebody that’s doing some really amazing stuff. There’s a company in Singapore, that’s called RE vivo biosystems. And what they’re really doing is that skin on chip type of technology to replace animal skin testing, it is great, because either really cutting edge stuff. And basically, as you know, with cosmetics or other types of pharma products, they have to apply things on animal skin, or test stuff on animal skin. And that could be a thing of the past with this company. So they’re using the chip and they grow skin on top of the chip. And all of the same tests that you can, that can be done on the animal can be done on a piece of chip, which is really, really cutting edge stuff. And I hope they succeed. Because this will really help a lot of animals from going through a lot of this testing process.

Chris Edwards (31:45)

Yeah, great. Okay, I will hunt him down. Thank you, Max, thank you so much for your time today. It’s very inspiring to hear what you’re doing at TurtleTree. And I can’t wait to see your products on the shelves this year.

Max Rye (31:56)

Well, thank you, Chris. This has been wonderful. And I look forward to chatting again sometime soon.

Chris Edwards (32:01)

Thanks, Max.

Chris Edwards (32:02)

Three takeaways from this podcast episode I got is firstly, politics plays a really big part in what we consume, what gets produced, where it gets produced, and the overall economy and it’s something I don’t think I think about enough. Secondly, I think we’re at a really exciting point in time where we’re going to see massive changes of what’s on the shelf in the next 12 months, enabling consumers to really have greater choice and greater options of things we can eat and drink that will be better for us and better for the planet. And thirdly, I really liked hearing about Max’s journey. That fact he doesn’t have a food tech background and the fact that he enrolled in an MBA while he was running the business as a chief strategist. So, so interesting. I hope this inspires you as much as it inspired me. Thank you for listening to good business. Okay, I’m gonna let you in on a little secret. Selfishly, I created this podcast for my own personal growth. So I could go deep with entrepreneurs that truly inspire me. Of course, I also wanted a wider listenership to think about having impact, and our wonderful community at Launchpad, where we’re all aspiring to create better businesses together. If you have enjoyed this episode, I’d love you to leave a review, or perhaps share this podcast episode with a friend. That’s how podcast episodes get discovered. And I would love more entrepreneurs to think more deeply about their business and about creating a Heartland business with a bigger impact than just profit. And I’m sure you would too. So go ahead and post something on LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook and spread the word I will be forever grateful. Thanks again for listening and I hope that you feel as inspired as I am to create your own good business.