Episode 07: Mollie Jean De Dieu on the importance of Emotional Inclusion in the workplace

Full Transcript

Chris Edwards (02:11)

Hi, Mollie, welcome to the show. So lovely to have you here.

Mollie Jean De Dieu (02:15)

Hi, Chris. It’s a pleasure to be here early morning for me, evening for you.

Chris Edwards (02:20)

Yes, I appreciate you getting up early for me. So Mollie, let’s start with a little bit of backstory. You’re a true global citizen growing up in Africa, Paris, New York, and then moving to Hong Kong and Singapore, you landed a job with Longchamp 16 years ago. I’d love to know, how did you get the job and why have you stayed for 16 years?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (02:42)

Well, it’s such a good question I, well, I landed the job. I started my career with Longchamp 20 years ago out of New York, as I was a fresh grad to it, then and landed my job there and stayed a year and a half and then moved on to another company. And then lo and behold, move to Hong Kong, which for me, is the New York of Asia in so many ways. So the transition was smooth. And I think it was at the right place at the right time. They were looking for an Asia Pacific wholesale director to oversee the region and do quite a bit of business development, because at the time, there was still a lot to do in terms of growing, growing the brand. And I heard of the position, and, of course, presented myself and they knew me, they still ran me through the batteries of interviews. But I landed the job. And, you know, ironically, I didn’t speak Cantonese, I didn’t speak Mandarin. I was a young Franco American Girl arriving in Hong Kong. And I still to this day, don’t know why they gave me the job that they did. But it was such a wonderful opportunity to get to know the region, and to do a hefty load of business development. And I look back today, and I see all of the stores that are still existent that I opened. And I know, I feel a tremendous amount of pride in that. But I’ve stayed with Longchamp because of its ethos, and it’s a company that is still a family owned company, which is today, quite rare as most companies are, as you know, snatched up by huge conglomerates. And so the fact that it’s family owned, allows it to really go at its own pace, and to stick with its values altogether.

Chris Edwards (05:08)

Obviously, you’re inspired by the values but I’d also love to know Longchamp is a good business?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (05:15)

Well, as I as I mentioned, they take their time and I’ve seen so many companies try to grow their business too quickly that it’d be through completely redesigning their store, feel and tone, or opening up stores left, right and centre too quickly, or simply put, being very aggressive when it comes to, we work from a standpoint where, you know, moving slowly is better, and sticking to what our customers want, and really taking the time to listen to them. And, work alongside them through developing relationships with our customers, which is such an integral part of our business ethos, that, you know, we’ve been able to be sustainable in the long term, a lot of companies out there don’t. But also, we are a company that really, truly cares about the humanity of the individuals we employ, which is not the case everywhere. And I, you know, I’m happy to say that Longchamp we really walk our talk in that sense.

Chris Edwards (06:42)

That’s fantastic. You know, I’m kind of a little bit surprised. I’ve been doing a lot of research. And I feel like transparency in how people are treated in the production and manufacturing areas of fashion is one area that is always not as clean or as, as you know, brought to the front as it should be. And it’s one area that I think a lot of fashion businesses really need to lift their game. And there’s lots of websites out there now that rate businesses on their transparency. One thing that was interesting, as LongChamp it doesn’t really talk about it, or rate highly and transparency on particularly production wage. Is that a strategy or is that considered an approach?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (07:28)

Well, I think generally speaking, the people who talk the most do the last, and or do the least rather, we again, are very active in that realm in terms of, you know, for example, how we, for example, our bags are when we’re talking about sustainability, for example, you know, our leather bags are only made with leathers of animals, we can eat, right, our tanneries are, you know, really ensured that we can we follow protocol to make sure that we are polluting in the least way we can, we are factories we opened a few years ago and eco friendly factory, where again, you know, we have solar panels we have, we have a host of sort of dispositions and elements in that factory that make it such that again, it’s as eco friendly as possible, we don’t feel the need to, you know, again, make it a big media push to state that we are active on a CSR level. And, and, uh, but we do speak about it, our presidential special guests does speak to it when asked, but we like to come from a front of, again, humility. And there’s a lot to be said about intellectual humility. And I was just reading about it yesterday, where again, it takes a hefty dose of knowing that you are doing the right things, while always being humble enough to, to to understand that there’s always more to learn. It’s a very crowded space. I know a few companies or big companies that do a tremendous amount of this arena. And again, don’t make it a stance to mediatize, with the problem with the media chasing it too much is that it can come across as being, you know, a marketing push, or it can come across as being fake, basically. And we know, we really, again, align with authenticity, that is one of our core values. And when asked, we answered, we answered candidly, we don’t feel the need to to scream it off from the rooftops as a general sort of stance.

Chris Edwards (10:26)

Hmm, yeah, it’s interesting. I feel like there’s a wave of new consumers that are, I suppose, really seeking out these credentials of sustainability and thoughtful, caring business practices. And there’s a lot of sites out there now that just compare how good brands are doing. But yeah, I feel like people do want to know whether what they’re buying is ethical and sustainable.

Mollie Jean De Dieu (10:52)

Absolutely. And you see, for example, our pledge bag, which is the nylon, foldable bag, we all know and you perhaps have a few in your closet. Is actually the most sold bag in the world. And it is now made of recyclable nylon. So that is one, you know, big, big change that we’ve made as well, you can imagine the most sold bag in the world, we manufacture quite a few. So that was a big, big statement, and its own overall, in terms of walking our talk, and then there’s the B Corp certification. That is also an important one, not an easy feat to get. And, you know, again, we do a lot. But we’re doing it mindfully. And definitely, to your point, I think you’re absolutely spot on. And so how do we make sure specifically moving forward, that, again, our employees feel that they are really investing their time in a purposeful mission that is driven by the company, that that is really again, it is so important today, and to to really zero in on to really put at the centre fold of our agendas in order not only to retain our employees, and not only to make sure that they are staying engaged, but also to recruit new talent and the Gen Zers are, you know, the future of work, and they are very adamant about having an experience in the workplace, that is one that is worthwhile, that is one where they aren’t going to be also able to grow and able to leave a footprint where they can tell themselves that they have done something good look, I hear my my 10 year old just speaking yesterday about, ah, you know, maybe I shouldn’t have my friend come over just to pick up one of the artwork we did together because that would be wasteful, you know, in terms of in terms of gas for her mother. And you know, here she is having this sort of rationale. I’m thinking I never thought about that at 10 years old, you know, and where is that even coming from and these children, these, you know, again, and Gen Z are specifically I’m winning the millennials aside purposefully, are really really, again, intent on caring for our planet.

Chris Edwards (13:54)

Hmm. And so what do you see next on the Longchamp sustainability journey? Do you foresee in the future having bags that have leather alternatives and not using animal products? Yeah, I’d be interested to know about crystal ball gazing.

Mollie Jean De Dieu (14:13)

Sure. I mean we have a big part of our collections that are not obviously not just leather, but sustainable nylon as I mentioned earlier, and canvas and so we in terms of the ready to wear that we would that we have. The way in which it is all manufactured in Italy, we can make sure that it’s keeping close to the sustainable route. So whilst our leathers again, are made of animals we can eat, our tanneries are eco friendly, our, you know, a big segment also of our collections are not leather. So there’s a nice balance that is there and that we will continue to keep. And that we will continue to, you know, make sure that we hone in on a production level on a supply chain level in order to stay in line with, you know, the sustainable criterias out there.

Chris Edwards (15:21)

Very cool. And look, I want to switch gears for a minute. I love what you personally have been doing with emotional inclusion, you’re a champion, and I’m not sure if emotional inclusion is a phrase that you coined yourself, but you definitely own it in Singapore. And it’s something that I think, you know, very dear to my heart, like I definitely, in my own business and personal philosophy, really believe in the value and the importance of creating a trust and a, I suppose a beautiful workspace where people feel held. I’d love to start just in this new direction. Can you just share with everyone – What is emotional inclusion?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (16:06)

Sure. Well, thanks for that. Chris. Actually, it’s, again, you know, after two decades in the workplace and in the corporate landscape, I always have been very cognizant of the fact that a great deal of humanity lacks within the workplace, that we have a very archaic landscape in our 21st century world we live in. And when deep diving into the matter, I realised that the larger companies, for the most part, that do have diversity, equity and inclusion company, inclusion platforms, excuse me speak of all kinds of inclusion, but they don’t talk about emotional inclusion. And, you know, we are human beings we’re wired to feel we emote before we even reason. And why is there still such a void in the corporate landscape where, again, showing up with our full selves that work is shunned upon. Why do emotions in the workplace once again still equate to weakness or unprofessionalism? And so emotional inclusion was a byproduct of understanding again, that there was a void of emotional inclusiveness within our workplaces today. And so what we do is that we work with companies and help them really structure wellness pillars within their organisations in a medicalized way. So I think again, there was a real awakening with companies at large, especially in the backdrop of the pandemic, where the anxiety levels are still running high, where the stress levels are still running high. And we’re companies and I work with quite a few, you know, tell me we don’t know how to tackle this in a laser focused way, you know, we understand that there is a huge lack of engagement. And there’s a huge issue with retention, there is a huge issue with how to navigate the well being of our employees in such a way that we can make it an integral pillar of our companies. And so emotional inclusion works with companies, and again, creates mental health pillars at Wells respecting their organizational DNA. And that’s so important, you know, because every company is different, every company aspires to make a mark in this world and in a different way. So it’s been truly humbling work. And we are, you know, going to be, hopefully, within the next few years to bring that to the world, not just in Singapore, but throughout APAC. We’ve trademarked emotional inclusion. So that’s been very, you know? Yeah, I think they’re a really big win. And I have my book coming out.

Chris Edwards (19:36)

Oh, I’d love to hear about your book. But I want to know what triggered this. Was this something that happened?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (19:42)

Well, I think there were a host of different things. And I, of course, heard and witnessed, so many heard so many stories, and witnessed so many people navigating work, whilst going through a difficult time that be divorce, that’d be an illness, you know, friends, few friends who had cancer and have had to, again, navigate work in that way, having people who had lost a loved one. And who, seemingly, and actually, it was not just seemingly, but obviously really battling through their emotions at work to try and just get through their days. Right. And I think, is that mindset of employees, because they are afraid to speak up? Because if they speak up to HR, and for example, I mentioned that they have an issue, and nothing can be done? Well, you know, at that point, it’s, it’s, it’s embarrassing, it’s extremely vulnerable to them, because now their stories out of, you know, out of the, you know, is no longer you know, it’s out of the box. And so, I mean, of course, I’ve gone through my own stories, you know, I, I, I’m talking about one specifically in the book that will be launched next April, it’s coming out with Penguin, Random House, in April 2023. But I can share one story of you know, losing a child. And I think so many women can relate to that, and having to literally go to work a few days later.

Mollie Jean De Dieu (21:36)

You know, I think it’s a reality for so many for so many women, and I want to say men and women, right? Because we live in a culture that still really promotes for men to remain stoic to, God forbid, not show any emotions. Thankfully, I think things are starting to change. I have stories of global leaders in my book that are men and who are sharing their difficult patches with such bravery and, and, and vulnerability, you know, and I think we the world needs more of that. I think the workplace needs more of that. Because it’s in so many ways, the glue that allows us to relate to each other as humanity, you know, and I mean, according to a Harvard Business Review Paper 60% of employees still today have never spoken about mental health at work, right? Why? Because they’re afraid because there’s no structure necessarily in place for them to do it in a safe and confidential manner. And that is so profoundly key for them to be for employees at large, to be able to know that they can speak up in a safe environment, but it also takes leaders to themselves, to really be open about their own stories of vulnerability or difficulty. And so, that is something that I really push forward.

Chris Edwards (24:01)

So, Mollie, how do you measure emotional inclusion and the impact it can have on a work workplace?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (24:08)

Well, you can, as in anything you is in any business, you have the quantitative and then you have the qualitative, right. And so it’s the same for emotional inclusion. So the quantitative will be through of course, the engagement rates, it’ll be through your retention rates, it’ll be, you know, through the, you know, number of sick days that are taken, because, again, let’s face it, and let’s all please candidly speak up on this, when our employees take sick days, It’s not necessarily because, you know, they have high temperatures and are glued to their beds, it’s in most cases, because they’re burnt out, and because they just need a day to recoup. So there’s, again, the mind, body connection is a real thing. And so, again, sick days are a big, big issue in terms of how we measure the wellness of our employees, and on a qualitative level to really measure the wellness, the emotional wellness of our employees through an internal barometer. So again, at emotional inclusion, we have the psychologists working with a company over the course of our 12 month program, again to create that pillar, that wellness pillar. And so as they ask the employees in a confidential way, they also are able to gauge what the main thematics are right. And so on a monthly level, then we, you know, that’s time in creating content and creating workshops and creating dynamic interchanges with employees to tackle those issues. So, again, there’s, there’s, there’s a real, it’s, again, it’s an whole integrated approach. It there’s no right or wrong. Again, every company is different. So it’s really understanding our workshop, for example, isn’t very good example of this, because the workshop that we do in companies identifies two to three emotional triggers of the group that we’re working with, the group is generally no larger than 20 employees of a set company. And those emotional triggers vary from one group to another from one company to another, again, because the ecosystems are different, because the culture and the DNA of each company is different. So there needs to be a very laser focused approach I have in my own career received, I can’t tell you how many coaching packs, pockets, your you know, doses or whatever you want to call them, pamphlets on my desk, and I, truth be told, we’d go through them and sort of scan them through because they were so lengthy to start out with, and at the end of it still not understand what they were doing, you know, you know it again, so I think being very laser focused allows us to, to really measure in a way that is consistent. So we do quarterly reports with the companies we work with, in order to gauge the progress that we do within a few criterias that I’ve mentioned that there are more. And then of course, we you know, wrap in the qualitative as well.

Chris Edwards (26:51)

And Mollie, what’s your message to small business owners that want to make sure they have an emotionally inclusive company? What can they do?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (27:59)

I get this question quite a bit. And I first and foremost want to say, if you are really invested in walking your talk, in terms of the emotional wellness of your company, big or small, you need to make it as you know, really a priority and a priority, where you look at your business, as your business as a whole, and see where you can perhaps extract a set amount of budget in order to allow for there to be real medical help.I think, again, when it comes back to smaller companies that want to to seriously invest in the mental health of their employees, they need to understand that one, unless they do it, they’ll be left behind because their people will leave. They’ll either be burned out, or I mean, the great resignation, the silent resignation, it all speaks to it. I have quite a few friends who have smaller companies who are just going through that. And they’ve asked me the same question. What can we do? Well, that’s it we’ll look into for example, you know, what COVID has taught us is that we don’t need to travel as much as we used to in the first place. So can you take some of your travelling budget and perhaps allocate it to, you know, a mental health scheme. Where can you basically extract a few dollars left, right and centre in order to make mental health a priority, because if you don’t just in terms of attractiveness, right, as a company, you won’t be in a measure of recruiting the best possible talent because you won’t have a structure where employees feel, ah, I know that if I joined this company, I will be cared for on a mental front. I think that smaller companies need to see where they can scrape dollars to be serious about the said issue. The second point is they need to practise vulnerability, empathy and truly listening. And from the very top, I think that again, unless our leaders of today practice what they preach, their employees will not follow. And that isn’t an overnight thing. Right. It’s, it’s, I think it’s it’s a, it’s something that is cultivated as one goes along. But again, I always zero back to the fact that unless you really seriously show your employees that you are investing in a medical medical health pillar. They won’t trust you. The issue of trustability is a huge theme within companies today, where again, employees don’t don’t simply trust, you know, their leaders there.

Chris Edwards (30:27)

Yeah, do you think that’s changed a bit with COVID? You know the new normal of work from home for lots of companies. Definitely means companies are forced to trust their employees. Do you feel like that has changed at all? Do you feel like working from home is only damaging the employee’s health?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (30:45)

That’s such a good question. Well, I think you have the companies that are open to flexibility who understand that there is no way around it. And then you have the companies that are very against it and there is a component of culture here so again, but whether or not we’ve been forced, per se to trust our employees better is perhaps yeah is perhaps aiding our our workers or employees to feel more balanced. But it’s not enough. You know, I think, again, we need to to vest more time in a matter that is direly direly needed.

Chris Edwards (31:36)

Now, what I’d love to do is just jump into some rapid fire questions just to close this out. Firstly, do you have any business advice or a business mantra that you repeat to yourself, or you kind of keep coming back to?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (31:50)

Yes, and it’s a Brene Brown quote, and it’s Comparison is the “Thief of joy”. And for me, in all of my endeavours, I try to keep my blinders on and really focus on what I truly believe in. Well, knowing that staying humble is no matter what all is, you know, a standing force. And when I do humility, having the humility to know that one never knows enough that all roads lead to Rome. But yeah, so not comparing, and really focusing on what I do. And staying. Yeah, staying humble throughout. I love that Brene Brown quote.

Chris Edwards (32:51)

Nice. Nice Brene Brown. Yeah, everyone loves a bit of Brene. Okay, so which of these expressions resonates the most to you? Luck favours the open mind or fortune favours the bold

Mollie Jean De Dieu (33:05)

Luck favors the open mind.

Chris Edwards (33:07)

Okay, beautiful. And tell me what does community mean to you at LongChamp.

Mollie Jean De Dieu (33:13)

I think community to me at LongChamp and beyond is a general sense of belonging, knowing that we are all equal parts of the puzzle with our strengths and weaknesses, and that we all belong.

Chris Edwards (33:32)

That’s beautiful. I want to ask you what has been your favourite or best business collaboration or partnership that you’ve been involved in?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (33:42)

There are so so many, but I just I’m really proud of my latest one where I collaborated with the Singapore global network, which is a branch of the Singapore economic development board. And we we enacted as real community drivers in the realm of mental health. And last month was we had mental health day and we brought forth a an event called Mental Health unfiltered, and we congregated 50 people so between C suite leaders press and business mental health advocates in one room and I had two stellar psychologists to business to mental health advocates, I was one of them. And we brought the community and talked about mental health in an unfiltered, unsugarcoated way. And it was such a massive hit. And I feel tremendously proud that, you know, emotion inclusion, and the Singapore global network came together in this really meaningful collaboration. And I thought, wow, very proud very often because I’m the quintessential type A, but I saw how meaningful it was to people. And you know, and when you see that little spark in the eyes of in people, and when you see it, ha, you know, it resonated. Gosh, you know, what’s better than that?

Chris Edwards (35:20)

Huh, beautiful, beautiful. Oh, congratulations, that does sound amazing. I will have to check that out. I wanted to ask you, do you have a favourite business book?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (35:30)

Right now, I’m reading the book by Adam Grant called Think again. And I highly, highly recommend it. There’s so many. Just, I should show you my book. It’s literally highlighted everywhere. I obviously love Adam Grant. And he has so many sort of lightbulb sort of quotes in his book. And so I suggest that one right now. And there’s another one by Hubert Joly called the Heart of Business, which is a really good one, too.

Chris Edwards (36:11)

Oh, that sounds like my cup of tea. And lastly, at Launchpad and at Honeycombers, as we believe a rising tide floats all boats. So I was wondering, do you have another entrepreneur that’s running or is involved in a good business that we should invite onto this podcast?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (36:29)

Hmm, I’d have to give that one a think because there are a few but none are coming to my mind right now. I know this sounds terrible. I will come back to you on that one I promise.

Chris Edwards (36:42)

You can come back to me. So Molly, I am just gonna jump back in here. We were just having a great chat after we hit the stop button. And that always happens, so like so much great chat happens as soon as you press stop but I really love what you were sharing with me about false assumptions. Can you just tell me more about that?

Mollie Jean De Dieu (37:01)

Yeah, I think that is, you know, also, an area that is so overlooked and the importance of not overlooking false assumptions and that arena, again, as a human being, we have the tendency in doing that, right, when we were. I don’t know why that is, it just wired into us to just assume that because someone has a smile on their face or because someone is appearing “normal”, that everything is happy and jolly in their life. Hmm and that is such a dangerous realm and I think again when it comes to properly communicating, yeah going beyond the How are you and i find that to be superficial sort of discussion at the first place. Hmm but, what it conveys is pushing the envelope further from the ends we generally get. That’s not an easy thing to do because not everyone is willing to talk, but, always bearing in the corner of our minds and that’s something that I really try, again, walk my talk with, is never assuming that anyone is ok. And, if you are awesome but I always come from that to try and I really encourage everyone to do the same to come from heart and mind and space where, whomever you come contact with, and it can be a perfect stranger that you share, you know, a one minute elevator ride or someone you pass in the street or a colleague you bump into the pantry, or someone you meet at a business lunch, or whomever that maybe, just maybe, something is going into their lives and they are not talking about it but knowing that you are coming from an empathetic space and that open space of non-assumption makes such a difference and enriches the relationships so much better and when with a perfect stranger, the power of a smile can go such a long way.

Chris Edwards (39:49)

Yeah, I love that and I suppose and example that would be if you see someone and you say How are you and they will be like good, you know to be really like How are you? You know like, you given me the superficial answer now give me the real story on how you are really, you know like taking the extra minute to kinda go deeper and let them know that you are genuinely interested to hear their authentic real answer as opposed to a cultural greeting, you know an exchange of formality. But yeah, I suppose it’s caring and deeply caring about people around you and not, you know, I think the big thing in the workplace is you get so focused on doing and getting things done. I am very action oriented so I suffer from this. And the one thing I learn is just being in a small business for so many years now and is just the little moments means so much to people, and you know it does demonstrates to people that you really do genuinely care so I think that’s a really good message and a really you know something everyone can do and it cost nothing.

Mollie Jean De Dieu (41:05)

100% and also if I may add to the fact that truly deeply listening is such an important component but also knowing that someone navigating through difficult times might not be ready in the moment to share and that is important to know as well but to bear in mind that you know, whatever they give out is little bits and cues to say maybe.

Chris Edwards (41:45)

Yes I think particularly in cross cultural workplaces, you really got to look for those cues because people don’t communicate the same way you would. You know , like I am everything in my sleeve, like I would tell you everything. You know I am a classic extrovert oversharer hmm but, you know I have learn that you know you really have to look for subtle cues and dig and ask and ask again but yeah I think that’s a really really good point about the subtle cues.

Chris Edwards (42:20)

Mollie, It’s been such a pleasure chatting to you. I think what you’re doing with emotional inclusion, is exactly what’s needed. And I feel like the time is right. In that way, we’re ready for change. And I think employees and employers are seeing the wave of change. And it’s great to speak with someone who’s a change maker leading the change. So thank you for your time. And I look forward to publishing this podcast and sharing it wildly.

Mollie Jean De Dieu (42:52)

Thank you so much, Chris. It’s been so lovely chatting with you this morning.

Chris Edwards (42:56)

Thanks, Mollie.